September 2024 Featured Interview
Giving History a Human Face and Voice:
Amy Williams Documents the Lives of Kindertransport Children
Amy Williams, Ph.D.
Photo Courtesy: Amy Williams
Photo Courtesy: Amy Williams
About Amy Williams, Ph.D.:
Amy Williams holds a Ph.D. in history from Nottingham Trent University, UK, where she has worked as a part-time lecturer. She recently co-authored National and Transnational Memories of The Kindertransport: Exhibitions, Memorials, and Commemorations (Camden House, 2023) and is currently working on two more books.
Amy works with the Kindertransport Association (KTA) and completed a postdoctoral fellowship at the Zolberg Institute on Migration and Mobility at the New School in New York City.
She received the Culture Engagement Award (2017) by the AHRC’s Midlands3Cities Doctoral Training Partnership at the M3C Research Festival for her work during her placement at the national Holocaust Centre and Museum. She has recently been awarded a fellowship at Yad Vashem, the World Holocaust Remembrance Center.
Amy Williams holds a Ph.D. in history from Nottingham Trent University, UK, where she has worked as a part-time lecturer. She recently co-authored National and Transnational Memories of The Kindertransport: Exhibitions, Memorials, and Commemorations (Camden House, 2023) and is currently working on two more books.
Amy works with the Kindertransport Association (KTA) and completed a postdoctoral fellowship at the Zolberg Institute on Migration and Mobility at the New School in New York City.
She received the Culture Engagement Award (2017) by the AHRC’s Midlands3Cities Doctoral Training Partnership at the M3C Research Festival for her work during her placement at the national Holocaust Centre and Museum. She has recently been awarded a fellowship at Yad Vashem, the World Holocaust Remembrance Center.
Dr. Amy Williams is a young British historian with a love of fashion and Audrey Hepburn, an infectious giggle, and an academic’s seriousness of purpose about finding and interviewing survivors of the Kindertransport, a rescue effort that brought thousands of children from Nazi Germany to Great Britain and other countries prior to the start of World War II.
Beginning with her Ph.D. thesis (which is the first comprehensive examination of the different national and transnational memories of Kinderstransport children), her personal and academic mission is to document the rescued children’s early experiences and subsequent lives. Her work has taken her to Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Sweden, France, Holland, and the U.S. She speaks French and Spanish and is learning Hebrew in preparation for her upcoming move to Israel, where she has been awarded a fellowship at Yad Vashem, the World Holocaust Remembrance Center.
Amy is from Birmingham (“right in the middle of the country,” she says,) and grew up hearing stories of her grandmother’s displacement to the countryside during the war (for her safety, but unrelated to the Kindertransport) and her father’s being sent to Switzerland in the 1960s with the Red Cross where he — and many other children — were sent, for health reasons, to grow up with “fresh air.”
Carol Lippert Gray, associate editor, spoke with Amy in April, at the end of her recent fellowship at The New School in New York City to learn more about her research. (Note: Some remarks have been edited for length or clarity.)
Beginning with her Ph.D. thesis (which is the first comprehensive examination of the different national and transnational memories of Kinderstransport children), her personal and academic mission is to document the rescued children’s early experiences and subsequent lives. Her work has taken her to Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Sweden, France, Holland, and the U.S. She speaks French and Spanish and is learning Hebrew in preparation for her upcoming move to Israel, where she has been awarded a fellowship at Yad Vashem, the World Holocaust Remembrance Center.
Amy is from Birmingham (“right in the middle of the country,” she says,) and grew up hearing stories of her grandmother’s displacement to the countryside during the war (for her safety, but unrelated to the Kindertransport) and her father’s being sent to Switzerland in the 1960s with the Red Cross where he — and many other children — were sent, for health reasons, to grow up with “fresh air.”
Carol Lippert Gray, associate editor, spoke with Amy in April, at the end of her recent fellowship at The New School in New York City to learn more about her research. (Note: Some remarks have been edited for length or clarity.)
Describe your family’s experiences.
My father had a battered old suitcase with a Red Cross logo. It looked very moldy-oldy. He also had documents and letters he wrote to his parents. I wanted to know more about his growing up in Switzerland. Jewish refugee children were also sent to this area and all over Switzerland during the war. After the war, French and German non-Jewish children were sent there to be rehabilitated from the bombings by the British and Americans, and some children who survived the concentration camps were sent there.
I didn’t know anything about the British side of the Kindertransport; I only knew the Swiss side of things. But I heard about its 75th anniversary [event] when I was doing my first [college] degree, so I went with my dad. I was always interested in how children were rescued and decided to do my thesis on it. I spoke to a woman [at the anniversary event] whose father was on the Kindertransport. He was my first interview with a Holocaust survivor, and my first opportunity to interview from an academic perspective.
My father had a battered old suitcase with a Red Cross logo. It looked very moldy-oldy. He also had documents and letters he wrote to his parents. I wanted to know more about his growing up in Switzerland. Jewish refugee children were also sent to this area and all over Switzerland during the war. After the war, French and German non-Jewish children were sent there to be rehabilitated from the bombings by the British and Americans, and some children who survived the concentration camps were sent there.
I didn’t know anything about the British side of the Kindertransport; I only knew the Swiss side of things. But I heard about its 75th anniversary [event] when I was doing my first [college] degree, so I went with my dad. I was always interested in how children were rescued and decided to do my thesis on it. I spoke to a woman [at the anniversary event] whose father was on the Kindertransport. He was my first interview with a Holocaust survivor, and my first opportunity to interview from an academic perspective.
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What happened next?
I started to read about it and slowly, slowly understood it was not just a British rescue effort; it was transnational. They didn’t just go to Britain. They went to other countries. My grandma on my dad’s side was bombed out of her house three times during the war, and I grew up with World War II stories, so the topic of sending children away and their being welcomed into strangers’ houses always interested me.
My grandma was sent just a half hour or 40 minutes away into the countryside, so her parents could communicate with her. They were in the same country. But I know the Kindertransport families were escaping a war, genocide and antisemitism. They became displaced twice or thrice over. These children experienced so much more than my grandma or dad experienced.
So the topic spoke to you.
It spoke to me on so many levels. [Trying to parent] through letters — that must have been horrific for parents. The bravery and what they must have been going through to put a child on a train was remarkable. A lot thought they would be reunited shortly.
The idea of entrusting your child to a former enemy — sending them to Great Britain, a country that only 20 years before was at war with Germany [during World War I] — is mindboggling. The British parent could have been in one trench and the German in another.
I started to read about it and slowly, slowly understood it was not just a British rescue effort; it was transnational. They didn’t just go to Britain. They went to other countries. My grandma on my dad’s side was bombed out of her house three times during the war, and I grew up with World War II stories, so the topic of sending children away and their being welcomed into strangers’ houses always interested me.
My grandma was sent just a half hour or 40 minutes away into the countryside, so her parents could communicate with her. They were in the same country. But I know the Kindertransport families were escaping a war, genocide and antisemitism. They became displaced twice or thrice over. These children experienced so much more than my grandma or dad experienced.
So the topic spoke to you.
It spoke to me on so many levels. [Trying to parent] through letters — that must have been horrific for parents. The bravery and what they must have been going through to put a child on a train was remarkable. A lot thought they would be reunited shortly.
The idea of entrusting your child to a former enemy — sending them to Great Britain, a country that only 20 years before was at war with Germany [during World War I] — is mindboggling. The British parent could have been in one trench and the German in another.
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How many children are we talking about?
Roughly 10,000 came to Britain. There probably would have been more. About 500 came in 1936, before the Kindertransport. There were lots of different movements of children. With Sweden, France, and everywhere else, it’s probably closer to 20,000. One and a half million children were murdered in the Holocaust. That’s a staggering, staggering number and hard to get your head around. So many had places on the Kindertransport but couldn’t board because war had been declared. So many more could have been rescued if war hadn’t been declared on that day or if things had been speeded up. Even if you got to France or Holland or somewhere like that, it did not mean you were safe, because those countries were invaded [by the Germans]. Some children were deported and either survived the camps or were murdered in them. |
"One and a half million children were murdered in the Holocaust. That’s a staggering, staggering number and hard to get your head around. So many had places on the Kindertransport but couldn’t board because war had been declared. So many more could have been rescued if war hadn’t been declared on that day or if things had been speeded up." ~ Amy Williams |
How many survivors have you interviewed?
Around 150, but I’m still waiting to interview people. There’s a list. I’m so aware of the time. I think the oldest person I’ve interviewed is 98. I have so many to do.
How do you find them?
Would you believe social media? I see them posting, or they see me posting, and we connect. There’s a Facebook group of about 600 members: survivors, family members, academics.
There’s word of mouth. Friends of friends know people. If I’m giving a talk, people come over. And I did a BBC documentary a few years ago on Great British Railway Journeys, and some people contacted me through that, which is really special.
Around 150, but I’m still waiting to interview people. There’s a list. I’m so aware of the time. I think the oldest person I’ve interviewed is 98. I have so many to do.
How do you find them?
Would you believe social media? I see them posting, or they see me posting, and we connect. There’s a Facebook group of about 600 members: survivors, family members, academics.
There’s word of mouth. Friends of friends know people. If I’m giving a talk, people come over. And I did a BBC documentary a few years ago on Great British Railway Journeys, and some people contacted me through that, which is really special.
Why is this work important?
Because without listening to them, we’ll never understand the history of a Kindertransport child. They experienced it firsthand. Their stories are so complicated and diverse. A lot of history books focus on the national narratives around the Kindertransport, which is important, but when you listen to [the personal] stories and see how transnational this event was — their lives before, during, and after — it puts the journey itself and the war years into focus.
The Kindertransport is one story in their tapestry of life. It’s also a family story. While a child may have been on a Kindertransport, mom and dad could have gone to Shanghai and a brother to Palestine. It shows how the Kindertransport fits into the wider family narrative of either rescue or, tragically, murder.
And sadly, they won’t be with us much longer. It’s not just about understanding facts and figures. It’s understanding emotions and their personalities and quirks. You’re not interviewing a robot; you’re interviewing a real person.
Because without listening to them, we’ll never understand the history of a Kindertransport child. They experienced it firsthand. Their stories are so complicated and diverse. A lot of history books focus on the national narratives around the Kindertransport, which is important, but when you listen to [the personal] stories and see how transnational this event was — their lives before, during, and after — it puts the journey itself and the war years into focus.
The Kindertransport is one story in their tapestry of life. It’s also a family story. While a child may have been on a Kindertransport, mom and dad could have gone to Shanghai and a brother to Palestine. It shows how the Kindertransport fits into the wider family narrative of either rescue or, tragically, murder.
And sadly, they won’t be with us much longer. It’s not just about understanding facts and figures. It’s understanding emotions and their personalities and quirks. You’re not interviewing a robot; you’re interviewing a real person.
You’re putting a human face on the numbers.
A lot of children don’t remember their arrival in Britain. It’s interesting to see what they hold onto — those moments you don’t always see in the history books or in an exhibition. [They may remember] the final words from their mom and dad. Or the first time they tried jam and bread, not the hard brown German bread they were used to.
A lot of children don’t remember their arrival in Britain. It’s interesting to see what they hold onto — those moments you don’t always see in the history books or in an exhibition. [They may remember] the final words from their mom and dad. Or the first time they tried jam and bread, not the hard brown German bread they were used to.
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Tell us about your books.
My first book [co-authored with her mentor, Prof. Bill Niven, National and Transnational Memories of The Kindertransport: Exhibitions, Memorials, and Commemorations] came out last year. It’s on the memory side of things. Right now, I’m working on two books. [One, also co-authored with Bill Niven, is for Yale University Press on the transnational history of the Kindertransport. It’s due to be published in 2026. The other, for Mitteldeutscher Verlag, is a testimony book based on 150 interviews. The interviews focus on their hopes and dreams and how they overcome things or have had to re-route themselves. It presents interviews Amy has done over the years, many of them done on Zoom during COVID.] It was a really good time to think about why and how we interview. I tried to rethink each stage of the Kindertransport in prewar life. For example, where I grew up, they often talk about an idealized childhood, splintering and fracturing of families, uprootment, even before the Kindertransport. It solidifies the moment of separation but preserves some family bonds because some children were sent with a sibling or cousin. Every chapter ends with a second-generation reflection on the theme. |
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One of my biggest finds in America was that the term was used in 1934, way before 1938 [when most history books say it started]. It made me rethink the timeline — what is Kindertransport and how we define the term.
Where to you find sanctuary?
Clothes! I love clothes and the history of fashion. And I love how the things that are dear to me have a Kindertransport connection. I love Audrey Hepburn and escape into her films. Roman Holiday is my favorite, favorite film, and I was told by one of the ladies I’m meeting today that an uncle of a Kindertransporter worked on the film, which makes me feel like I know Audrey Hepburn.
I love ballet and anything performative. And travel. I love journeying and writing about it, seeing new sights and places. If you think about their journeys after the war, so many Kindertransports I know are constantly seeking new experiences. I’ve taken that from our exchanges — to seek things out.
Clothes! I love clothes and the history of fashion. And I love how the things that are dear to me have a Kindertransport connection. I love Audrey Hepburn and escape into her films. Roman Holiday is my favorite, favorite film, and I was told by one of the ladies I’m meeting today that an uncle of a Kindertransporter worked on the film, which makes me feel like I know Audrey Hepburn.
I love ballet and anything performative. And travel. I love journeying and writing about it, seeing new sights and places. If you think about their journeys after the war, so many Kindertransports I know are constantly seeking new experiences. I’ve taken that from our exchanges — to seek things out.
