April 2019
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Interview with
Dianne Zager
Internationally-Recognized Autism Educator
& Head of School for Shrub Oak International School
About Dianne:
Dianne Zager, Ph.D., is an internationally-recognized pioneer in autism education and Head of School for Shrub Oak International School in Mohegan Lake, NY. She has consulted with school districts across the U.S. to develop autism educational programs and founded one of the nation’s first college support programs for students with autism.
Dianne has served as president of the International Council for Exceptional Children’s Division on Autism and Developmental Disabilities and has over 30 years of experience directing graduate and post-graduate programs to train school personnel in autism. She has done extensive work in the transition of students with autism to adulthood and employment. Dianne was founding editor (with Richard Simpson) of Focus on Autism and Other Developmental Disabilities, one of the most widely read autism journals in the nation, and has authored numerous books, chapters, and research papers on topics related to the education of students with autism spectrum disorders.
Dianne Zager, Ph.D., is an internationally-recognized pioneer in autism education and Head of School for Shrub Oak International School in Mohegan Lake, NY. She has consulted with school districts across the U.S. to develop autism educational programs and founded one of the nation’s first college support programs for students with autism.
Dianne has served as president of the International Council for Exceptional Children’s Division on Autism and Developmental Disabilities and has over 30 years of experience directing graduate and post-graduate programs to train school personnel in autism. She has done extensive work in the transition of students with autism to adulthood and employment. Dianne was founding editor (with Richard Simpson) of Focus on Autism and Other Developmental Disabilities, one of the most widely read autism journals in the nation, and has authored numerous books, chapters, and research papers on topics related to the education of students with autism spectrum disorders.
About Shrub Oak International School:
Shrub Oak is a world-class, private special education boarding and day school empowering students to develop the skills necessary to manage their lives to their highest potential and celebrate their individual strengths. The school serves the sophisticated needs of an international co-ed population of children and young adults on the autism spectrum and is managed by a team of experts, each with decades of experience in their respective fields. Shrub Oak’s mission is to empower students to successfully pursue higher education and/or meaningful careers, while increasing their independence for adult life.
Shrub Oak is a world-class, private special education boarding and day school empowering students to develop the skills necessary to manage their lives to their highest potential and celebrate their individual strengths. The school serves the sophisticated needs of an international co-ed population of children and young adults on the autism spectrum and is managed by a team of experts, each with decades of experience in their respective fields. Shrub Oak’s mission is to empower students to successfully pursue higher education and/or meaningful careers, while increasing their independence for adult life.
Myrna Beth Haskell, managing editor, spoke with Dianne about her decades-long journey advocating for students with autism and educating classroom personnel on proven strategies that help autistics reach their potential and become valued members of their communities.
What was it that compelled you to work in autism education?
I come from a family that believes in contributing. Each of us has dedicated our lives to making a difference, and I found that I could make a difference in the lives of people with special challenges.
I was on the path to special education instruction and was familiar with Burt Blatt’s* published work and career – he was a national leader in education of individuals with intellectual disabilities. He was also a professor of special education at Boston University, so I decided to study at BU because he was there. I arrived there only to find out that he would be leaving. I begged him to allow me to enroll in just one course before his departure. It was a doctoral level course about the implications of nature vs. nurture in developmental disabilities. I distinctly remember the class that was held the night before Thanksgiving that semester. He brought in these carousels full of slides and turned off the lights. The images depicted man’s inhumanity toward patients in institutions. You could hear a pin drop. After two hours of watching these slides, he said, “You can no longer say you don’t know what’s going on.” After the room was empty, I sat there thinking…knowing what I had to do. I had to help make the lives of people with disabilities more dignified and humane.
This is why I am so deeply honored to be receiving the Burton Blatt Humanitarian Award in January 2020.
*Burton Blatt (1927–1985) was a pioneer in humanizing services for people with intellectual disabilities. As an advocate of deinstitutionalization, he helped initiate community living programs and family support services, and he emphasized the humanity of all people, regardless of the severity of their disabilities, throughout his numerous publications.
So, were you working in autism education before Asperger’s was added to the DSM-IV* in 1994?
Yes.
*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, published by the American Psychiatric Association.
In 2013 (in the DSM V), the association decided to remove Asperger’s as a separate diagnosis; instead, it was included as part of an umbrella diagnosis - Autism Spectrum Disorder. Does this hinder classroom instruction at all since ASD is such a broad spectrum?
Honestly, I’m more focused on applied practical accommodations that are data driven. I don’t worry about the ‘label.’ What labels do provide is an eligibility for specific services that students would not be entitled to otherwise.
However, what’s imperative is the understanding of the effectiveness of materials and programs and whether or not they have achieved specific goals for individual students. If a program isn’t designed in such a way that a student’s progress can be assessed properly, teachers cannot come to conclusions about what is working and what is not.
In my personal opinion…I wish Asperger’s had not been removed as a specific diagnosis. A sense of pride can develop from this diagnosis – an understanding of one’s own strengths, abilities and profile. I know Aspies who still refer to themselves this way. There have been several experts who have written papers protesting that Asperger’s was taken out.
You developed one of the nation’s first college support programs for students with autism. What did this program provide?
Yes. Back then it was either the first or one of the first. Today, there are about 250.
District 75 in New York City* serves students with the most complex disabilities. A teacher I was working with at one of the schools asked if I could let her students come to Pace University to take classes there – these were students ages 18 to 21. I had just started working for Pace after having worked at C.W. Post for 23 years. These students had significant, dual diagnoses – autism and intellectual disabilities – and came from diverse, high-poverty areas. I’m thinking…how am I going to get administration to agree to this? But I went ahead and spoke with the Dean. She thought it was a worthy idea. She then spoke with the President, and he was for it as well, so we moved ahead with the program.
At first, several faculty members were upset with this change. The students attended classes with their teachers who would individually adapt the work for them.
When this program received attention in the media, I was approached by others to build a college support program for students with autism. With the Dean’s approval, I agreed. We started with four students – we called them the Fabulous Four. Some of these students had significant autism, but the university learned how to adapt and educate students with varying disabilities. Nearly 50 students applied the year that I left!
*District 75 is made up of 57 schools designed to provide highly specialized instructional support for students with significant challenges, such as autism spectrum disorders, significant cognitive delays, emotional disturbances, sensory impairments and multiple disabilities.
What are the key concepts you’ve used for training teachers to effectively guide autistic students to reach their full potential?
For 30 years, I wrote grants. C.W. Post was very supportive throughout my time there. I was able to reach goals with each project. Then, the students would graduate, and I’d write another grant to bring the program to another level. The C.W. Post program was a Master’s in Special Education with a concentration in autism, and the Pace program was a post-graduate Autism Specialist Program, which provided 18+ credits above a master’s. Full scholarships were given to students in these programs. We trained 107 autism specialists, and they were placed into public and private schools.
Prospective teachers must first learn to understand what autism is and appreciate what it means to educate students with both learning and behavioral issues. They must listen, watch and collect information through assessment. The most important thing is to respect the student and build a relationship based on the strengths of a student. Respect for the parents of the student is also imperative. Parents are an incredible resource. Teachers need to hear what the parents are telling them and use this information to help their child.
It’s important to use a documented method or approach that has proven results. We [Shrub Oak International School] use evidence-based methodologies, with emphasis on ABA (Applied Behavior Analysis).* We set clear expectations and reward students for being ‘good.’ There is no punishment, only encouragement.
But whatever plan you use, it needs to be person-centered for each individual student. Strategies and materials need to be assessed continually. Teachers also need to be consumers of research. They can then build their own programs based off other proven, effective practices.
*ABA is commonly practiced as a therapeutic intervention for individuals with autism. According to the Center for Autism, ABA helps autistics improve social interactions, learn new skills, and maintain positive behaviors. (Psychology Today)
Explain the environment at Shrub Oak and how this enables students to reach their potential, become self-advocates and prepare for the often harsh ‘real world.’
Well, ABA isn’t the only technique used at Shrub Oak. I think any technique done well is worthy as long as you’re collecting data to ensure the method is working.
We use a variety of methodologies. Our staff shares knowledge and methods. We’re not enslaved by just one method. Instead, we master the methods that are enabling students to progress. It’s all about the individual student.
Everything starts with care and respect so that students are empowered to reach their greatest potential.
How should someone on the spectrum be prepared when it comes to job search and interviews?
All students at Shrub Oak – ages 16 and older – are supervised for two half days per week in community-based internships, whether they are college bound or on a vocational track. We design the internship for the individual student. We practice safety first. We look at the physical environment of a site – locations of exits, restrooms, etc. We also shadow workers at the jobsites and task-analyze the jobs.
Students go to locations with their teachers or therapists (occupational, speech-language, etc.). While the teachers instruct the students, they give them space and observe. The internships teach the students job skills through this hands-on process.
What are some of the most common issues for autistics once they’ve entered the workforce?
Becoming proficient at the job is usually not the problem. Social interaction during downtime is the problem. Dealing with co-workers and different personalities…filling time during breaks and eating lunch in the cafeteria – these are the things that are difficult for someone on the spectrum.
What was it that compelled you to work in autism education?
I come from a family that believes in contributing. Each of us has dedicated our lives to making a difference, and I found that I could make a difference in the lives of people with special challenges.
I was on the path to special education instruction and was familiar with Burt Blatt’s* published work and career – he was a national leader in education of individuals with intellectual disabilities. He was also a professor of special education at Boston University, so I decided to study at BU because he was there. I arrived there only to find out that he would be leaving. I begged him to allow me to enroll in just one course before his departure. It was a doctoral level course about the implications of nature vs. nurture in developmental disabilities. I distinctly remember the class that was held the night before Thanksgiving that semester. He brought in these carousels full of slides and turned off the lights. The images depicted man’s inhumanity toward patients in institutions. You could hear a pin drop. After two hours of watching these slides, he said, “You can no longer say you don’t know what’s going on.” After the room was empty, I sat there thinking…knowing what I had to do. I had to help make the lives of people with disabilities more dignified and humane.
This is why I am so deeply honored to be receiving the Burton Blatt Humanitarian Award in January 2020.
*Burton Blatt (1927–1985) was a pioneer in humanizing services for people with intellectual disabilities. As an advocate of deinstitutionalization, he helped initiate community living programs and family support services, and he emphasized the humanity of all people, regardless of the severity of their disabilities, throughout his numerous publications.
So, were you working in autism education before Asperger’s was added to the DSM-IV* in 1994?
Yes.
*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, published by the American Psychiatric Association.
In 2013 (in the DSM V), the association decided to remove Asperger’s as a separate diagnosis; instead, it was included as part of an umbrella diagnosis - Autism Spectrum Disorder. Does this hinder classroom instruction at all since ASD is such a broad spectrum?
Honestly, I’m more focused on applied practical accommodations that are data driven. I don’t worry about the ‘label.’ What labels do provide is an eligibility for specific services that students would not be entitled to otherwise.
However, what’s imperative is the understanding of the effectiveness of materials and programs and whether or not they have achieved specific goals for individual students. If a program isn’t designed in such a way that a student’s progress can be assessed properly, teachers cannot come to conclusions about what is working and what is not.
In my personal opinion…I wish Asperger’s had not been removed as a specific diagnosis. A sense of pride can develop from this diagnosis – an understanding of one’s own strengths, abilities and profile. I know Aspies who still refer to themselves this way. There have been several experts who have written papers protesting that Asperger’s was taken out.
You developed one of the nation’s first college support programs for students with autism. What did this program provide?
Yes. Back then it was either the first or one of the first. Today, there are about 250.
District 75 in New York City* serves students with the most complex disabilities. A teacher I was working with at one of the schools asked if I could let her students come to Pace University to take classes there – these were students ages 18 to 21. I had just started working for Pace after having worked at C.W. Post for 23 years. These students had significant, dual diagnoses – autism and intellectual disabilities – and came from diverse, high-poverty areas. I’m thinking…how am I going to get administration to agree to this? But I went ahead and spoke with the Dean. She thought it was a worthy idea. She then spoke with the President, and he was for it as well, so we moved ahead with the program.
At first, several faculty members were upset with this change. The students attended classes with their teachers who would individually adapt the work for them.
When this program received attention in the media, I was approached by others to build a college support program for students with autism. With the Dean’s approval, I agreed. We started with four students – we called them the Fabulous Four. Some of these students had significant autism, but the university learned how to adapt and educate students with varying disabilities. Nearly 50 students applied the year that I left!
*District 75 is made up of 57 schools designed to provide highly specialized instructional support for students with significant challenges, such as autism spectrum disorders, significant cognitive delays, emotional disturbances, sensory impairments and multiple disabilities.
What are the key concepts you’ve used for training teachers to effectively guide autistic students to reach their full potential?
For 30 years, I wrote grants. C.W. Post was very supportive throughout my time there. I was able to reach goals with each project. Then, the students would graduate, and I’d write another grant to bring the program to another level. The C.W. Post program was a Master’s in Special Education with a concentration in autism, and the Pace program was a post-graduate Autism Specialist Program, which provided 18+ credits above a master’s. Full scholarships were given to students in these programs. We trained 107 autism specialists, and they were placed into public and private schools.
Prospective teachers must first learn to understand what autism is and appreciate what it means to educate students with both learning and behavioral issues. They must listen, watch and collect information through assessment. The most important thing is to respect the student and build a relationship based on the strengths of a student. Respect for the parents of the student is also imperative. Parents are an incredible resource. Teachers need to hear what the parents are telling them and use this information to help their child.
It’s important to use a documented method or approach that has proven results. We [Shrub Oak International School] use evidence-based methodologies, with emphasis on ABA (Applied Behavior Analysis).* We set clear expectations and reward students for being ‘good.’ There is no punishment, only encouragement.
But whatever plan you use, it needs to be person-centered for each individual student. Strategies and materials need to be assessed continually. Teachers also need to be consumers of research. They can then build their own programs based off other proven, effective practices.
*ABA is commonly practiced as a therapeutic intervention for individuals with autism. According to the Center for Autism, ABA helps autistics improve social interactions, learn new skills, and maintain positive behaviors. (Psychology Today)
Explain the environment at Shrub Oak and how this enables students to reach their potential, become self-advocates and prepare for the often harsh ‘real world.’
Well, ABA isn’t the only technique used at Shrub Oak. I think any technique done well is worthy as long as you’re collecting data to ensure the method is working.
We use a variety of methodologies. Our staff shares knowledge and methods. We’re not enslaved by just one method. Instead, we master the methods that are enabling students to progress. It’s all about the individual student.
Everything starts with care and respect so that students are empowered to reach their greatest potential.
How should someone on the spectrum be prepared when it comes to job search and interviews?
All students at Shrub Oak – ages 16 and older – are supervised for two half days per week in community-based internships, whether they are college bound or on a vocational track. We design the internship for the individual student. We practice safety first. We look at the physical environment of a site – locations of exits, restrooms, etc. We also shadow workers at the jobsites and task-analyze the jobs.
Students go to locations with their teachers or therapists (occupational, speech-language, etc.). While the teachers instruct the students, they give them space and observe. The internships teach the students job skills through this hands-on process.
What are some of the most common issues for autistics once they’ve entered the workforce?
Becoming proficient at the job is usually not the problem. Social interaction during downtime is the problem. Dealing with co-workers and different personalities…filling time during breaks and eating lunch in the cafeteria – these are the things that are difficult for someone on the spectrum.
